26 May 2009

Blog Rally

I've been watching the news, which I really don't like to do. In about ten minutes, a rally will start at the state capitol building to protest California's ruling on Proposition 8. This means I'll be watching the news again at ten to find out how that went. As it's kind of a big deal to a lot of us, I thought I'd share some of my thoughts.

First, I am feeling kind of gloomy about it. It's not because I had hopes of getting married in California someday, because I didn't. It's because I know it's causing sadness for a lot of people tonight.

Second, I'm glad that the courts at least decided that those who did take the opportunity to get married are still recognized as married. Those couples made that commitment to each other and they deserve to have that stand. That made me happy.

Third, I wonder about what repercussions this will have for me, or someone like me, who lives and has always lived in Utah, is LDS, and is still in the closet. The LDS Church already issued their statement, and I don't think anyone is surprised by their response. They are pleased with the courts ruling. Really? Shocking!

I believe that freedom of religion and freedom of marriage are two separate things. I believe that churches should be allowed to decide who they will and won't marry. If Catholics or Mormons or Protestants or whoever wants to say "we won't marry two people of the same gender," that's their call, and they should have the freedom to make that call. But that doesn't mean that marriage and the rights that are given to married people by the government should be exclusively decided by churches. It shouldn't be a constitutional issue. I believe everyone should have the right and the opportunity to get married. All men (and women, I might add) are created equal, which means that there shouldn't be different rules based on the person you want to spend the rest of your life with. That seems pretty simple to me, but that's just me, I guess.

Did I say that in a way that makes sense? I hope so.

So I'm not standing on the steps of my state's capitol. I haven't made signs that state my opinions. I don't even own a rainbow flag. But I understand why people are there, with their signs and their flags and their courage and their convictions, because I support marriage equality too.

One day, I hope gay marriage rallies won't be needed at all, because there won't be "straight marriage" and "gay marriage," there will just be MARRIAGE: the uniting of two people in a commitment of love.


HappyOrganist said...

I was pleased with the ruling. But you all knew that, right? I hate politics; I don't like debating things. But Prop 8 didn't bother me. I would explain why - but I don't like debating. I won't change your mind, and you probably won't change mine. (or at the very least, I don't expect anyone's mind to be changed by arguing). So I don't debate.
oh well..
did I mention I don't like politics? It's something I should probably be more involved in (civic duty and such). But I hate it.
Maybe after I become a good cook, I'll get involved in politics.
I would so rather study healing instead.
Have I meandered sufficiently off topic? Yes. I think that's enough...
I can't believe I'm posting this at all (it is so counter-intuition). But I guess I want to play devil's advocate, as it were. (except that I already said I hate debating things).
I hope you have a good evening/week, Amy. Sorry you're feeling sad. (i'm sure that won't sound very sincere. nothing looks good in text).
- JL

alex dumas said...

OK, but why does it need to be called "marriage?" If it was up to me, the union between man and woman could continue to be called marriage and the union of two same-gender people could be called...I don't know--partnered, or something. Because it's not the same thing! At least not in my mind. And the legally "partnered" people would get all of the rights they want, like having a wedding, and being legally bound to each other financially, and they could share medical benefits and visit each other in the hospital and be considered family and all that. Why can't we just call it something different? And then each state could decide whether or not they will allow legal adoption to "partners."

But I guess the issue of children is a whole different debate. So I'll stop there.

Jenz said...

Alex -- because separate is not equal. Why do you have a problem with the word marriage?? It is the same thing. I love my "wife" of 15 years just the same and as much as any heterosexual couple -- and in the same exact way. What else matters? We deserve to join our lives and be family just like anyone else. It's discrimination -- it's hate - period. It's sad.

We had a rally in Dallas too. If you don't stand up for your own rights, no one will.

I was not shocked by the decision -- but things are moving in the right direction. It will come with time.

HappyOrganist said...

Ok (this is fun) (sorry, i have so many other things going on right now - this is a nice break kind of). I want to stand with Alex here (and with myself). (not to fight here - please don't misunderstand my motive). As far as "it's hate".. ah
Here's my opinion.
(i'm so going to get beaten up here).
crap. I don't know how to say this.
Jenz you're scaring me! I am just way too self conscious. I'll get over it.
I think there is more than one way to show love (i'm not talking about marriage here - i'm talking about charity in general and loving people in general). Very in general.
umm... And I am of the opinion that if you believe something is wrong (in the eternal scheme of things.. or maybe even in the 'short-term' scheme of things) - then the loving thing to do is support what is right.
Let me use this parallel that you'll all attack.
If my friend comes up to me and says he wants to steal something, would I be showing more love to that person by helping him steal whatever it was he wanted? Or would I show more love (in the long run) by trying to tell him that stealing is wrong? I could show love by not condemning him for either wanting to steal (definitely) or actually stealing [I'd leave it to God to judge.. well in some ways. I mean with the stealing example, obviously there would be some immediate consequences].
Ok. I don't know if I've been coherent or meandered..
this may take more than one post.
Anyway - my point is - I don't think everyone who opposes same-sex marriage (or unions) is necessarily hating those people. We may be (at least some of us) trying to do what we were taught was right and are actually trying to show love to those around us by teaching (or supporting) things that are correct (or that we believe are correct).

I imagine a million people are going to jump on that.

But - I'm not saying whether or not what I personally believe or has been taught is eternally true. But, since I believe it is, I have a duty to myself to support myself (and everyone else) living those principles (that I believe will help them to be happy in the eternal perspective).
bla bla bla

Hey, what I believe might not be true. But the point I'm trying to make here, is that my motive for supporting Prop 8 (etc) is love for gay and straight alike.
More than one way to show love.
And maybe not all 'perfect' (i hate that word).

K, go ahead and jump.
I'm ready. (got my soda) ;-)

HappyOrganist said...


Hey Alex, I might need another soda over here. I can count on you, right?

alex dumas said...

I don't think it's the same thing. God doesn't either from what I understand. But I don't hate anybody. If I tell a child she can't have a popsicle before dinner, I don't hate her. I'm telling her she has to follow the rules. These aren't our rules--men's rules, the supreme court's rules. They're God's.

drakames said...

Hmmm...seems like a lot to respond to.

Let me just say that I think all y'all are entitled to your opinions, and I'm glad that you've shared those here. I like reading your thoughts on what I post.

So I'm processing and formulating a response, and I'll get back to you very soon.

HappyOrganist said...

Alex, we should get together for lunch sometime ;-D

Jenz said...

Nothing wrong with a little debate I guess, although I do realize that LDS bubble is hard to penetrate. LOL :)

I already know all this jargin -- "we don't hate the gays, we love them"...blah blah blah. I have heard it all before from the LDS leaders -- and my mom. I was raised in the church and I know everything you guys believe.

Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion -- just don't force your religious beliefs in a civil matter. Nor is it up to you to try and "guide" anyone in any direction at all - except for your children.

Please don't take offense...but it has nothing to do with you. Gay marriage is of no threat to you and your family. And please just let God be worried about our eternal salvation.

LOL :) But -- Comparing gay marriage to stealing and popsicles is funny y'all! Seriously! HA HA!!!

HappyOrganist said...

the bubble is INpenetrable !
Thank you for keeping it light (unless you were mad in the last line of your comment. in which case, thanks withdrawn). ;-)
Ok. I vote this topic is closed.
Amy, talk about something else. ;-)